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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:40 am 
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Hmmm. I'm using nGlide both on my Win 10 desktop and Win 8 laptop and have not had any such problems :/ And it makes no sense, I did not touch anything that had to do with the resolution in this version nor did I change the triglide.dll (which is why it's not even in the patch file).

Please don't be offended of what I am going to ask, since you are saying that 0.35 works fine it should mean you've done this but I just need to double check and make sure nothing was overlooked.
Whenever you change the resolution, you first exit the game and then start it again correct? (if you change the resolution and immediately start then it has problems).

>>much of the screen is black or missing.

This is something that older versions of nGlide did but not nGlide 1.05. You are using 1.05 correct?

Note: Wait... that's weird, the 3dfx logo appears after you launch the game and before it enters the menu? It should only appear when you start a race.


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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:15 pm 
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Why not just use directx mode, which works wonderfully? Is that broken for you too?

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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:55 pm 
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If one doesn't have a powerful computer, performance on Windows 10 sucks and you have to use nGlide.

It's not the case on Win 7 where nGlide is worse.


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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:35 pm 
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Fila wrote:
If one doesn't have a powerful computer, performance on Windows 10 sucks and you have to use nGlide.

It's not the case on Win 7 where nGlide is worse.

Have you figured out what directdraw is being used for? I wonder what would happen if you just comment it out.

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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:25 pm 
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3dfx logo appears when I start game,my comment in the previous post is not in chronological order, sorry!
You are right about nglide version, it is 1.04 ..... When you don't know you don't know? In my defence, I had to re-install Windows 10 about 4 weeks ago, and I ended up having to reinstall MTM2, and never knew there was a newer version of nglide?
Where do I get nglide 1.05? It's OK I have found it and downloaded and installed it. I will try beta 0.37 tomorrow and let you know the result!


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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:07 pm 
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Ugh, I should update the mtm2 nGlide webpage with up to date info in regards to the game patches.

Tbf disposable... your "problem" is very very weird. Simply because 1.04 nglide should not have worked properly since community patch #1. So the fact that it works fine with 0.35 (which is post comm patch) is weird as it never worked on my end. Only with 1.05 (it's mentioned in the community patch notes).


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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:17 pm 
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Slayer wrote:
Fila wrote:
If one doesn't have a powerful computer, performance on Windows 10 sucks and you have to use nGlide.

It's not the case on Win 7 where nGlide is worse.

Have you figured out what directdraw is being used for? I wonder what would happen if you just comment it out.


It's hard to find proper documentation for bloody directx5 but from what I read it it seems that you need to use DirectDraw to be able to use Direct3D.

Quote:
Besides introducing an easier-to-use immediate mode API, DirectX 5.0 added the SetRenderTarget method that enabled Direct3D devices to write their graphical output to a variety of DirectDraw surfaces.


The little info that I found mentions that Direct3D works on top of DirectDraw. So basically DirectDraw initializes the screen + handles the video memory and then Direct3D comes in, does the 3D rendering and shoots it back to DirectDraw to display. And I think it makes sense for two reasons:

1. The TRI code for Direct3D is extremely intertwined with DirectDraw calls. Basically in the same line of code there are calls to both DirectDraw and Direct3D which makes it impossible to comment out DDraw.
2. It kind of makes sense why MTM2 struggles when there are too many 256x256 textures as DDraw, being a 2D Api, was never designed to deal with too many high res (back then) textures.

I have compiled the game against DirectX7 headers (which has moved more into the direction of Direct3D as a standalone) but the code is written with DDraw in mind, so compiling against DX5 or DX7 headers makes no difference really.


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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:18 am 
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Fila wrote:
Slayer wrote:
Fila wrote:
If one doesn't have a powerful computer, performance on Windows 10 sucks and you have to use nGlide.

It's not the case on Win 7 where nGlide is worse.

Have you figured out what directdraw is being used for? I wonder what would happen if you just comment it out.


It's hard to find proper documentation for bloody directx5 but from what I read it it seems that you need to use DirectDraw to be able to use Direct3D.

Quote:
Besides introducing an easier-to-use immediate mode API, DirectX 5.0 added the SetRenderTarget method that enabled Direct3D devices to write their graphical output to a variety of DirectDraw surfaces.


The little info that I found mentions that Direct3D works on top of DirectDraw. So basically DirectDraw initializes the screen + handles the video memory and then Direct3D comes in, does the 3D rendering and shoots it back to DirectDraw to display. And I think it makes sense for two reasons:

1. The TRI code for Direct3D is extremely intertwined with DirectDraw calls. Basically in the same line of code there are calls to both DirectDraw and Direct3D which makes it impossible to comment out DDraw.
2. It kind of makes sense why MTM2 struggles when there are too many 256x256 textures as DDraw, being a 2D Api, was never designed to deal with too many high res (back then) textures.

I have compiled the game against DirectX7 headers (which has moved more into the direction of Direct3D as a standalone) but the code is written with DDraw in mind, so compiling against DX5 or DX7 headers makes no difference really.

Ah I see, makes sense. That would enable them to scale down to the hardware easily.

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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:30 am 
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Beta 0.37 / nglide 1.05 :
Still multiple problems - Drove through a couple of trucks that were overturned as if they were not there? Can't use cockpit mode as the cab is only partially drawn? Chase Near does not work with keyboard controls if you use auto brake, and you cannot reverse out of trouble when moving forward, also the truck accelerates even without touching the up arrow?


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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:23 am 
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Changed back to nglide 1.04 and Beta 0.35 and now cab view doesn't work any more, the cab is only partly drawn?


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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:27 am 
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I'm starting to be confused at what exactly goes on with your system disposable.

From the community patch #1 notes:

Quote:
- Dashboard doesn't work. If you want to use first person view please use non-dashboard camera.


The dashboard has not been working ever since 0.20, it's logically impossible for the dashboard to have been working because it doesn't exist for resolution outside 640x480. The cockpit.pod has no workable dashboard for a higher resolution. The only way the dashboard was working is if you were using 640x480 resolution and nGlide was multisampling to 1280x1024.

Quote:
Drove through a couple of trucks that were overturned as if they were not there?


You can drive through an AI truck once he calls for a Helicopter.

Quote:
Chase Near does not work with keyboard controls if you use auto brake, you cannot reverse out of trouble when moving forward, also the truck accelerates even without touching the up arrow


Are you sure you weren't using auto break & throttle?


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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:18 pm 
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just tried MT by selecting 640x480 in game and cockpit view works!
So you are probably right in your conclusion Fila, but please understand that I honestly thought I had set the in game res to 1280x1024 previously!
I knew nothing about your second point, so it seemed strange to me when it happened!
I was using auto brake only (for testing purposes), I also noticed that the truck ran very slowly for long stretches of track, but everything is back to normal now . So it could have been because I had the resolution screwed up?
MTM2 is purely a fun game for me and not a religion (no offence intended).


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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:55 pm 
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Tbf I included the 3dfx mention in the game resolution simply because it works and I was able to do it with no additional work because ultimately when using nGlide/3dfx the best idea is to actually use 640x480 and let nGlide increase the resolution of the game. This way you have the best balance between modern looking and highest fps. The moment you increase the actual game resolution you lose fps (especially on Win8 and Win10).

Maybe you selected auto break & throttle by mistake?

The resolution shouldn't have anything to do with it.


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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:27 pm 
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When I first changed to Beta 0.37 from 0.35, I probably re-set the res to 1280x1024 in game because I thought it was needed, so I created a storm in a tea cup (as we say in the UK), and I apologise for that!


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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:21 am 
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Had an idea.
Any way to make a high/low gravity mode or setting for use in pods? MTM2 has always had moon gravity and I think it would be cool to play tracks with that problem corrected slightly. And it could be fun to make moon like tracks with huge jumps, or race car like tracks will high speed very low jumps with high gravity and tight turns.

-Edited for spelling, grammar, and balmer peak.

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Last edited by Slayer on Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:04 am 
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If I remember right I think they could do that gravity thing in Unreal Tournament or something...or one of those old shooters, it was awesome, also I think a ton of people still play the original Unreal Tournament game online with each other, that's pretty much as old as this game, dang good game.


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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:19 pm 
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If the physics can in fact be modified, I bet you could add a per-track gravity adjustment and still not break backwards compatibility. Every track has a "latitude, longitude" parameter in the .sit file, which to my knowledge does nothing. I bet you could steal one of those and repurpose it to mean gravity (with an upper limit, so existing tracks ignore it and don't break). Track Locale isn't used either and I bet you could do something cool with that too.


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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:34 pm 
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Mat-Allum wrote:
If the physics can in fact be modified, I bet you could add a per-track gravity adjustment and still not break backwards compatibility. Every track has a "latitude, longitude" parameter in the .sit file, which to my knowledge does nothing. I bet you could steal one of those and repurpose it to mean gravity (with an upper limit, so existing tracks ignore it and don't break). Track Locale isn't used either and I bet you could do something cool with that too.

if locale=="moon"?

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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:37 am 
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Slayer wrote:
Mat-Allum wrote:
If the physics can in fact be modified, I bet you could add a per-track gravity adjustment and still not break backwards compatibility. Every track has a "latitude, longitude" parameter in the .sit file, which to my knowledge does nothing. I bet you could steal one of those and repurpose it to mean gravity (with an upper limit, so existing tracks ignore it and don't break). Track Locale isn't used either and I bet you could do something cool with that too.

if locale=="moon"?


More or less :D


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 Post subject: Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.37 (SandCastle hotfix)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:49 pm 
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Slayer wrote:
if locale=="moon"?

Ooh, I didn't even think of that way of doing it. That could work.

Also:
Code:
if(locale=="moon")
{
   punish(&you);
}

(If you get this joke, you're awesome)


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