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 Post subject: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:42 pm
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OK 1st let me start by saying, i have tried and gotten same result on 4 separate PC's.

All are running either Win 10 Pro X64 or Win 10 Enterprise X64
2 of them are completely clean fresh windows loads.

What happens is You go into multiplayer in MTM2, click connect
Pick TCP/IP, then click to host, and it's done.
Just freezes, does not create the lobby or anything.
You have to kill it in task manager.

IPX works fine
Even serial works, strangely enough, i still have null modem cables
TCP just freezes

And that is even with trying to forward ports, and even set DMZ

Maybe there is no fix, might be that it hates windows 64bit
suppose i could set up an XP virtual machine and see if it likes that


PS
It does this on a bone stock MTM2 install from the real MTM2 cd even with out any patches
It does not do this though, on MTM1, it actually works online
I also tried runnting MTM2 as admin, and even in down to win95 compat mode which just game an access violation


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:56 am 
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Have you tried this?

https://support.ubisoft.com/en-GB/Faqs/ ... w%20window.


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:42 pm
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Fila wrote:


Directplay is enabled
But it is a much different directplay than mtm2 would have known.

What is funny is MTM1 simply just works with it.
pick host, pick tcpip, and poof it just works, LAN, across internet, it does not care.

MTM2 though, picking tcpip freezes it.
No error, no crash, no eventual time out, it's just froze.

It will work as IPX/SPX using the ipx wrapper (windows 10 no longer has IPX/SPX)
It even works with serial and modem, but not TCPIP

It is strange that older MTM1 will work where MTM2 will not.

And again, this is even on a completely clean windows install Windows 10 Pro X64 build 2004, with a completely clean MTM2 install
and official MTM2 patches
same results

I need a better debugging tool


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:01 pm 
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Have you checked the windows firewall? If it freezes TCP it sounds like it's waiting for the go ahead from the firewall.


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:31 am 
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wiesshund wrote:
Fila wrote:


Directplay is enabled
But it is a much different directplay than mtm2 would have known.


Is it? I thought the whole point of that is to enable legacy DirectPlay, which is what I needed to do to have the game work.


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:42 pm
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monster.exe is set as allowed in the firewall, inbound and outbound

It is the point of directplay, but the dplayx.dll is a way newer version.

I dont have a 32bit windows 10 machine to try and see if that makes any difference.

I thought i would give it a try using kali, since it used to do IPX/SPX but i ran into two problems.
Kali's 32bit ipx emulation does not seem to work, at least on my OS
no games saw it actually.

2nd problem was, no one was there to play anything with anyways.

I even tried removing the router from the equation, and just put 2 PC's on a lan cable.
Could run MTM1 fine and host and join games
MTM2 simply freezes when you click host.
You can click join and throw in an IP, and even though the machine at the other end is not hosting to answer it back
I can see the game trying to join reach out to the other machine and query it.

seems to be something specific about hosting, not sure what though, my debugger is too simple
doesnt give any detail.

But it maybe looks like i might not find many to race with anymore anyways


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:10 pm 
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I can't run MTM2 without legacy directplay enabled so it doesn't matter that dplayx.dll is a newer version.

It sounds to me that we're missing something because everyone I know runs this on Windows 10 64bit.

So whenever I install I do the following:

1. Enable directplay legacy
2. set up port forwarding (hosting does not work without port forwarding, although it should not freeze, it just blocks others from seeing your game)
3. allow it through firewall

You're the first person that I heard say it freezes when hosting TCP/IP so there must be something specific to your computer that we are missing. A test would be to see if you can join someone else that is hosting. Voobly basically makes the game connect through tcp/ip.


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:57 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:42 pm
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I have tried it on 4 different PC's with same exact result

And via voobly, the game process appears in task manager, but it never appears on the screen
remains in task manager non responsive.
I assume because voobly launches the game as host from the command line
In voobly, i was trying to host, i found no one that was hosting.

And i have tried it with no router involved, so nothing to forward ports on or to block ports.

Only thing i have not tried is setting up a winXP vm, and having it host to see if i can join it.


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:54 am 
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Well you should stick around on voobly so that whenever I have some time I can host a game for you.

I have MTM2 running on 3 different PCs using win 10 enterprise 64bit, cope and nitemare also run Win 10 professional 64bit. It sounds like there is something specific to the way your Windows is setup that blocks communication. There's been plenty of people that have had trouble hosting due to port forwarding but no one ever had problems with the game freezing upon doing so.


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:59 am 
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Other option would also be to just try this download instead.

http://mtm2.com/~mtmg/mtm2.html

Since several people used that and the game worked.


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:42 pm
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Fila wrote:
Other option would also be to just try this download instead.

http://mtm2.com/~mtmg/mtm2.html

Since several people used that and the game worked.


Even that still freezes
And i pulled out an old windowsXP laptop, it can barely run the game in software mode.
It froze when picking tcpip.

Weird....

to be continued
im going to have to break out some real debugging tools


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:42 pm
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Well, interesting finding, and i know why it does not work on anything here

MTM2 as opposed to MTM1 makes some kind of SSL request on port 443 when you click host and then click connect after picking tcpip.

not really sure where the request is directed to
there is no answer, and MTM2 waits half a sec and then proceeds to the game lobby.

Unless....

...Something answers.

And something is answering, and after it answers, and MTM2 does not get what ever answer it is looking for, it just sits there eternally, apparently waiting for the proper acknowledgement.

I have an ebook server, that is ssl capable, but since it only runs in the house, i dont even have an ssl cert in it or anything
but apparently it still hears, and it answers MTM2.
I can see it in the server log, the book server just discards it as invalid and goes about it's business.

Since the book server is in house only and i've no need for it to have SSL logins, i just blocked it from both having incoming or outgoing transmissions on its machine on port 443, it it can not heat MTM2 yelling HEY YOU, and so it does not answer back.

I did not dig enough to find out what exactly the communication is, may do that later out of curiosity.
Wonder if it is some old microsoft game Zone left over thing?
Maybe something from the zone websites old lobby or something?

Was funny though, fire up MTM2 on 5 machines, click to host, freeze all 5
and see the book server receive 5 inbounds to it.
It basically answer back, Hey that aint valid, try again, and that is where MTM2 freezes.

Odd MTM1 does not send anything at all out like that

took router out of equation, but i never took the book server off the switch.

As far as my router itself goes
with the book server dealt with, it seems to auto set ports for MTM2 as needed
and takes them away when done.
Was watching it allocate dynamic port forwards, so does not look like i will need to static forward them
if i do for hosting, i have the services created, just need to turn them on


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:03 am 
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Was that you that joined? I had someone join for a bit and then leave.

It might indeed have been a msn gaming zone legacy thing.

Still worth testing your router works correctly for hosting once you are able to. My router works fine when I join other games (no need to forward) but I do need to static forward when hosting. Crappier routers need to port forward even when joining.


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:42 pm
Posts: 23
No, i didnt join the game you had running.
Didnt want to join and then vanish, was messing with it in between working.

I have the services created on the controller in case i need them, just have to turn them on.
But i did see all the ports open up on the router when i put the game up as hosting.

Not sure what the game is calling out to, i would have to run some other tools that i dont have set up to probe into that, but if i had to guess
i'd say that it is probably trying to call out to the long gone master game browser and say Hey, i am running a game.

I find it funny though that a calibre book server answers it, and kind of funnier still that when the game gets a response but not the one it is looking for, that it simply sits, like they built no exit routine into that process to bounce out and say hey, sorry but the answer i got
is no good.


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:56 am 
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Oh I am not surprised. I have the source code... it's a mess.


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:38 am 
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You should still join to see if it works out of curiosity (whether it still sends a a 443 request). I wasn't at the computer anyway, I left it up running.


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 Post subject: Re: Help playing online?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:42 pm
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Fila wrote:
Oh I am not surprised. I have the source code... it's a mess.


That is nifty, i did not know it had ever been released.

This game could probably be re-released, and sell decently today, with some minor updates of course.
enhance the physics and articulation, with todays cpu's could probably even simulate a bit of tire deformation
Bring the graphics up a bit, at least in the world area, maybe add to/enhance the effects, bit of mud flying, water spray etc.
Suppose we could probably bust things up on a more detailed level too.

Not so sure MS would be interested though, unless it was for the Xbox
Don't think the games division is what it once was.


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