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 Post subject: Suggestion for a BIN editing tool
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 4:30 am 
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(I wrote this late last night, and managed to lose it all when I clicked a website link to research the subject matter....disgusted me enough to drop it and wait 'til morning to re-write....this is my second copy...groan!)

SUGGESTION:
I was wondering how hard it would be to make a proggy to remove "collapsed faces" from a BIN model or at least an OBJ file.


DESCRIPTION: collapsed what?
When one does a vertix-merge in Binedit, sometimes many faces collapse into dots or lines if the merge distance is large enough. Dots are faces (polygons) with all corners connected to one vertix (a point in 3D space),...Lines are faces connected to 2 vertices.

You can't see the dots, but if you cycle through the faces on a model and come upon one you can't see (and the face counter isn't at -1) then you found a single-vertix collapsed face......faces with 2 unique vertices resemble a straight line, and are visible).


REMOVAL:
Excess vertices can be removed easily enough, but bad faces must be removed manually, one by one. OK in some cases, but a pain on larger model files.


IDEA:
A program that looks at the data for each face in a 3D model file, identifies the faces connected to at least a minimum of 3 UNIQUE vertixes, and remove any with less than 3.


WHY DO I ASK?:
I recently found some OBJ models of actual asteroids in outer space, modeled with radar signatures and computers......very realistic, but 2000 vert. and 4000+ faces is a bit much, eh? (that's a little one...another I have is more in the 16,000 range!)

I used the MERGE VERTICES tool to merge any points closer than 200 Binedit units, and brought it down to 200 vert. (shoot for lower), but the faces remain.

Normally, I'd cycle through the faces and remove the bad polys manually, one-by-one. That's fine in many cases, but not when there's thousands to deal with....it tries even my patience... :(

If I can reduce these models in detail, then they may make good track model boulders or such, (or maybe even the boulder car driven by the SLAG BROTHERS in the old WACKY RACES cartoon....) Who knows?

Anyway, it's a tool that I think would be useful...if it's possible to make, and not too hard to write.....

===============================================

SAMPLES:
If you'd like to see the models in their original form, I zipped two of the OBJ format models in one ZIP (I have more)...They load into Binedit just fine using the IMPORT WAVEFRONT menu item. They are;

Golevka (2047 vertices - 4091 faces)

Toutatis (6399 ver. - 12,795 faces!)
http://mtm2.com/~bigdogge/download/2_asteroid_OBJ_files.zip

============================

I also have them in POV format, along with textures, for anyone who has POVRAY (Persistence of Vision Raytracer). You can get it free if you want to experiment with it.
http://www.povray.org/
--------------------------

Thanks for listening....time for breakfast!


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- BigDOGGe's Boneyard ...The Best Custom Trucks in MTM2 -


<font size=1>Edited by ZOtm_BigDOGGe (26-04-2003)</font>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:01 am 
Glow Ball
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Joined: Tue Feb 02, 1999 7:00 pm
Posts: 11
There is a program by mdmre inappropriately named bin face fixer (it works on wavefronts, not bins)

Download

Info

I've never used it but have no reason to suppose it doesn't do what it's supposed to.

Stuck Throttle told me about something called PolyChop. I've neither seen it nor been told where to get it, but supposedly it's freeware. If you find, try and like it, let me know and I'll host the file with the rest of the utilities.

Meantime, let's hope someone from the Binedit Development Team sees this post :o)



<font size=1>Edited by Phineus (26-04-2003)</font>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:11 am 
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I've used Face-fixer several times inthe past...it just removes duplicate faces (I think) and anyway, it won't handle files this large (OUT OF STRING SPACE error message).

I'll do some searching for PolyChop...thx for the tip.... Sounds interesting.



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- BigDOGGe's Boneyard ...The Best Custom Trucks in MTM2 -


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:13 am 
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Location: Silicon Valley, California. USA
http://www.melax.com/polychop/

I searched google and found many sites...looks like it's a plug-in for 3DS max and Lightwave.....I will experiment...

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- BigDOGGe's Boneyard ...The Best Custom Trucks in MTM2 -

<font size=1>Edited by ZOtm_BigDOGGe (26-04-2003)</font>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 9:42 am 
easy company
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Good thoughts, noted... I remember Legwon suggesting the same a while back at Vales, at least I think it was him, can't check right now.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:22 pm 
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I could make that program.
Thats my kind of program right there.
I wish i had more time. Maybe today after church i could get a start on it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 3:20 am 
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Cool CH, then you may want to see this this page (PDF) of poly-removal methods and algorhythms...there may be some useful info for you.
http://www.melax.com/polychop/gdmag.pdf

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- BigDOGGe's Boneyard ...The Best Custom Trucks in MTM2 -


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 5:27 pm 
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Here's something to chew on BigDOGGe:
http://www.blender3d.org/About/

Blender, a completely free product that is one of the most complicated looking programs I've ever looked at, has a "mesh decimator" that reduces complexity while maintaining a shape.

Blender imports and exports "DXF", which is just about the only format it does support, and the format you will have to use as an 'intermediate'. (The fully functional shareware version of 3D Exploration <a href=/~trackville/utils/3dx15.exe>v1.5</a> will convert the OBJ to DXF and back again, and is what I recommend.)

In Blender, load the DXF. Then press F9 to switch to the proper edit mode, at which point you will see a "decimator" slider which you can slide anywhere down to 4 polygons if you like. If nothing else, this program is worth getting (less than 2mb) for the decimator feature. Then export and convert back to OBJ and load into Binedit.

Blender notes: press middle mouse button to rotate view, and mmb + Ctrl to zoom.

I blasted the asteroids, works great. Good luck.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:52 am 
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Thanks bro....I'll definitely check out Blender...looks interesting.

I already have had 3D Exploration for years, for .OBJ files too large for Binedit (30,000 + polygons).




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- BigDOGGe's Boneyard ...The Best Custom Trucks in MTM2 -


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:09 pm 
easy company
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Joined: Tue Feb 29, 2000 2:01 pm
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Quote:
SUGGESTION:
I was wondering how hard it would be to make a proggy to remove "collapsed faces" from a BIN model or at least an OBJ file.


when merging close vertices with BinEdit 2 it will automaticaly remove all collapsed faces and unused vertices.


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