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 Post subject: Dead Land by Fatal Error
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2000 1:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 2:01 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
The Track: "Dead Land"
Type: Long Circuit or short Rally...you decide

This track is my first attempt at a "no lag but still appealing" race. It is designed for a good competetive race with wide lanes and turns and non-slippery textures (unless you get off the road)

The base texture was designed to simulate driving around a world that has been covered by volcanic ash. There is a smaller section where plant life has recovered due to the land being surrounded by water so the lava could not destroy it. There are spots in the ash that are still in a molten state with flames appearing here and there. Most of the valleys have been filled with ash so all you can see is the tips of the mountains. Hope you enjoy this track.

Anyone with some spare time please try it and let me know what you think (good and bad comments welcome) Thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2000 3:39 am 
Glow Ball
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Joined: Tue Feb 02, 1999 7:00 pm
Posts: 19
First off, it's a solid track. Nothing wrong with it at all. So, the only thing to comment on is the theme. For instance,

would wooden bridges have survived the volcano? I'd make 'em stone.

and, the road is really intact compared to the damage all around.

Also, you have nice little texture spots for the pine trees but they're not under all of them. I understand the idea of live vs dead trees, but this is inconsistent

Further to this idea, I wonder if you could do something with the trees in the dead zone too. I mean the textures under or around them.

How about animated textures so the embers glow more

the flames however really work well with the lava you have there.

General note on the custom textures - really nice!

I'm not a fan of slippery textures. How about leaving them set to default but give them the depth. You achieve the slow down you want for off road but without making it so hard to drive.

It's easy to over shoot check point two and land in the water (which btw is way deeper than it needs to be). and while I'm on the road, the bump just after the start/finish line can throw you over the curve - you have the fence there, but it's little consolation. maybe smooth that out, or leave it for the driving challenge, it's up to you.

Music is fine. kinda suits the environment.

Where's the volcano?

Lastly, I accidentally ran it in the rain the first time. When I restarted it in clear mode, I realized that a cloudy weather mask would be okay. The grey clouds really underscore the dingy atmosphere you've created. It works really well. Try it out.

Oh, and, those checkpoints are really nice. Good work on those.

Oh, and again, the computer trucks work great - they stuck to the road better than I did.

Oh, and yet again, I ran it in two minutes. It's hard to argue for rally in that short of time.

------------------
- Phineus

edit: good choice on the back drop too

[This message has been edited by Phineus (edited 06-05-2000).]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2000 11:26 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 2:01 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
Phineus, thanks for the input. As for the volcano itself, after about 3 hours I gave up because it just doesn't look realistic. I'm gonna try exporting one from Bryce as a model and see how it looks.
thanks again
FE

[This message has been edited by Fatal Error (edited 07-05-2000).]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2000 11:37 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2000 2:01 pm
Posts: 360
Looks good so far. You might want to take ideas from other tracks. Guitar Bill's Dr Scrote's Volcano has a nice backdrop that has the volcano in the backdrop(hint hint Image ). You could make the volcano in the backdrop!! ImageI remember a track before called snowy avalanche(by MOP_Zero) and it used animated textures to resemble an avalache. Maybe you could put together a flowing lava combination of textures. Image
Just a thought!

K-Dawg


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2000 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 2:01 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
Kdawg,
Thanks for the input. I had already looked at Guitar Bill's track and honestly I hated the backdrop. I tried to make my own after reading MTMG instructions and ended up nearly putting my fist through the screen Image I either don't have the talent or I'm not reading the instructions right. I'll take a look at Snowy Avalanche and see if it gets my brain functioning again. Oh and if your good at making backdrops (hint hint) I think the best one would be the backdrop I'm using with a volcano in it.
cya
FE


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2000 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 2:01 pm
Posts: 0
FE, dunno at what point the backdrop thing is failing, but once you have your bin made and mapped...

1) select all faces
2) set group face type to mtm1 transparency
3) set group magic number to -2147483648
4) save as backdrop

That should do it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2000 1:10 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 2:01 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
Phineus, Kdawg and anyone else with some free time...I've uploaded a revised "Dead Land" track to KC's beta section. Please let me know what you think. ZIP file is DEADLAND1.1.ZIP

Thanks again
FE


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2000 9:54 am 
easy company
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Joined: Tue Feb 29, 2000 2:01 pm
Posts: 2036
just two things,

first of all i really like those cp markers they look great but are to easy to hit when i try to cut the corner close to them except #3 its set to no collide, i think they all should be set this way except insert a object box over them that is the same size as the bin its self, there is nothing worse to me than ramming into something i cannot see.

secondly, the course seemed a bit too easy, i realize that this is still a beta and maybe you are still going to implement some terrain adjustments to keep it interesting beyond the great looking texture work, or perhaps the "speedway" type of high speed, banked, free flowing, smooth, effect is was what you are looking to create,,, in that case you have done a fine job... its just a matter of taste i usually prefer a more hazardous environment especially under the volcanic destruction of your world..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2000 10:55 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 2:01 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
Malibu350, thanks for the suggestions. I didn't know what to do with that checkpoint but make it no collide. I'll do what you suggested.

Now, I'm a bit confused when dealing with people's preferences, like Phineus seems to like smooth, good flowing tracks. Winterkill likes to race in CLEAR mode etc. This "world" is simulating volcanic ash that has settled over months and months kinda like sand dunes in the desert when the wind blows them smooth. There's still active lava flowing under it. Can you give me some suggestions on how to "tear up the terrain" but still make it fun to drive for "most racers"? Really appreciate your help...
FE

p.s. thanks for the screen shot of Fantasy Isle on your web site Image

p.s.s. Maybe show me a small screen shot from your Expo track of what type of damage I could use without making it un-drivable. I HATE IT when I download a track and it's a chore just to stay on the road...

[This message has been edited by Fatal Error (edited 08-05-2000).]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2000 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 2:01 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
Winterkill, I don't mind public comments at all. As they say..."I will release no track before it's time" Image (author unknown)

Your help is more than appreciated. As you can tell I'm still learning (ex. the over-sized checkpoints) but with help and suggestions from all you veterans I hope to be a "recognized track maker" where when you see a track at KC's with my name on it, you don't have to wonder if it's worth the download Image or when I open FE's track, will the comp trucks take an immediate turn into the sea. I hate that! I will implement all the suggestions you made. Also will fix the checkpoint size problem. I have no problem with your fix-it pod. As OOPS;-) told me once, "I'm flattered your using my textures, just next time ask" With me, I'd be flattered to know others are keeping the tracks I make.
I still wonder about the gaurd rails along the stone bridge. With no rail, it's 50-50 you end up in the drink. What about something like a chain or rope type fence like you see along a fishing pier? Or should I just leave it with no barrier at all? Let me know what you think about that...
Oh and when you say "While driving, a person can pretty much completely ingnore the "road" between cp 2 and 3" do you mean there should be water, walls or hills so you have to stay close to the road? Sorry for all the questions, but I want this to be the best track I've done and with 4X4 coming soon, I have a feeling the number of new MTM2 tracks will be considerably reduced. I better stop now...it's probably the 3 shots of Southern Comfort I had but I'm ready to do some editing. Please get back to me about the bridge rails and the "ignore road between CP2 and CP3 if you get time.

thanks again
FE


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2000 9:46 pm 
Glow Ball
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Joined: Tue Feb 02, 1999 7:00 pm
Posts: 19
>>Now, I'm a bit confused when dealing with people's preferences

Well, that's the thing here. You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't...well you know. For the record, its not so much that I like smooth, good flowing tracks, I just hate it when I download a track and it's a chore just to stay on the road...lol. No, I mean, good tracks are made up of a lot of different elements. A person should consider these when making a track, but then go ahead and create what they prefer. The trick is to know the difference, to be aware that your decisions are being made deliberately, and not unwittingly. A person should be satisfied with their own work first. After all, you have to live with it. If you can get others to like it, then that's bonus points.

The jump over the road that comes a bit after cp#3. To me, it stands out as deliberately contrived since it's the only thing of it's kind. If you're going to play with it, then maybe lowering it would be okay. However, other alternatives would be to make the rise that leads into it more gradual so that it comes across as less a jump than a drop off an edge (you don't need to lose the jump feel, ie don't go one extreme to the other). And no matter which way you go, make it a few squares wider - you can drive around it (to the left the checkpoint is an obstacle, to the right a little bump, but both are faster if you hit it right).

The bridge railings. I didn't really have a problem with this - I just looked at it like speedway barriers. But since it's been talked about, here are a couple ideers. You could use the railings like in Black Fork or MC's straight and the making of which Angus has illustrated well. This would allow the railings but provide see through parts. Maybe a wrought iron look would work. Alternately, you could do something like in alpine's extremely crazy where you raise the edges of the outer ground boxes to narrow the road. This would be similar to what you have but 1) it needn't be as extreme, and 2) add a challenge to the road by forcing attention to the restricted driving area.

Speaking of the road.

I didn't mind ignoring the road between cp 2/3. While it does offer a few second short, it doesn't cut big time off the lap. Also, the angle that you approach cp 3 is affected too. The wider turn the road offers allows you to keep up more speed, I think, and the narrow angle created by going cross country so to speak slows you down a tad. But, if you wanted to give a slight advantage to the road over the cut, all you need to do is set the grass texture to grip depth 20 (or 10) just as you have with the ash base texture. That'll give somebody pause before using the grass but wont slow them up too severely if they do.

My choice has always been to "angle the checkpoint box to match the terrain." but again, that's personal preference.

Checkpoint models. I did notice that it was easy to bump them while passing, but not enough to be a problem. I guess that's why my lap times are still so high. Anyway, after reading everything above, I'd like to suggest you clean up the extra verticies and save them with new names. I think, with a view to the long haul, that this is the better way to go...just eliminate the problem at point zero. And it wouldn't hurt to include the fixes in the fixit pod too, in case somebody grabs them out of straight on. All bases covered.

Lastly, since mal and wk both mention the drivability, then maybe I should say something on it too. Bandwagons can be nice sometime. Anyway, I think the thing is that the wide open track and smooth terrain conspire to make some, let's say, uneventful driving. There is room to pass and room to turn and room for just about anything you want, and there are no "real" obstacles to get in the way, unless of course you grump about checkpoints, lol. But then again, everything you have done is in keeping with the theme, which you don't really want to take away from. Two things come to mind. First, consider playing with the width of the driving area. Nothing grabs a driver's attention like suddenly needing to steer the truck. Secondly, you could use things like were done in godzilla vs bigfoot, where there are cracks in the road that create uneven driving areas. The degree that you use either of these is, of course, up to you.

There's two more cents for you. Now we're up to four.


------------------
- Phineus


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2000 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 2:01 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
yea, but when I add up all the cents I got, it's well over a dime Image

Thanks for the help...as they say "I now know what I must do"

There's so many great suggestions here I had to print the entire thread for easier reference to it...
thanks again...
FE

just a quick note to let you know that it will probably be a week before next beta is sent. I'm suddenly swamped with PC's to fix. And by the way, I've managed to "aquire" some PhotoImpact plugins so you guys want road damage???...you'll see melted, cracked asphalt. You'll see roads with molten surface bubbles on fire...and if I can swing it, you'll see realistic looking lava spewing from the volcanic gases coming out of the ash Image bye for now

p.s. tell psyco to hurry up with that report he's doing so we can find out the winners Image

[This message has been edited by Fatal Error (edited 09-05-2000).]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2000 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 2:01 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
Winterkill, I always take advice, good or bad. If I disagree then I look for an alternative which pleases me and also the people racing my tracks (if there are any yet)

I decided to go with a bridge railing like the one in Emcee's Expo entry. I changed the bridge railing texture to an old, burned metal. Looks great, keeps you on the bridge and lets you see the scenery also. I also added thin cracks to the bridge surface and melted the asphalt road in certain spots. Look for the 3rd (yikes!) beta on Saturday or Sunday.

I am guilty of NEVER trying my tracks in other views. I ALWAYS use chase far but now that I've tried cockpit, it gives me a whole different perspective on the design of the track and how it looks to others. I think the thing that bothered me the most was looking at nothing but sky going off a high ramp...didn't like that.

Thanks for the input..
FE


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2000 4:37 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 2:01 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
OK, Dead Land 1.2 beta is at KC's. Suggestions good or bad are welcomed and needed. I'm not sure if I should increase the length of the circuit or leave it as is. Let me know your thoughts Image

Thanks
FE


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