check out this poll about racing games

[ZOtm_BigDOGGe]

I can't say if it will work using multiple controllers. I use a thrustmaster Nascar wheel plugged into my analog gameport (I bought it when I bought the game).

Note: press <escape> as soon as the EA screen appears at the start, and it goes away inmmediately instead of waiting for it to go away.

[rocketalces]

Hey Mumhra

It seems we are playing very much the same racing games. I would be really interested in your opinion about Flatout. Tthe only thing I know is that the physics engine is derived from Rally Trophy (which I liked a lot).

Can you tell us more?

[OLD_mumhra]

There is not so much to tell about Flatout i think.
It's big fun but it has 2 downsides.

1. No proper online gameplay. The game actually has no online gameplay and playing offline gets boaring after a while. There are lots of patches on the net which make it possible to play online, but they are not made by the makers of the game.
This gives problems because there is no possibility to chat in the game. You can drive race after race after race, but in other games (like mtm) you can talk a little in between or even while you are racing but here that's impossible.
Maybe opening an audio conversation in messenger while playing this game could be a solution... Never tried that.

2. It lacks realism. Now for some people this isn't such a bad thing but my opinion is you can crash into eachother just to hard. You can bump the other car just of the track making it impossible for your opponent to win the race. This is fun for a while, but it gets boaring imho.

Another thing that i dislike is the nos-system in the cars. It gets filled up by hitting fences and crashing into other cars etc. The speed difference when using that nos is hughe so you can really win or loose a race by using this nos. It's just to important.
But like i said, the game itself is hughe fun. But it won't ever be a match for MTM2 or GPL.

Now what i recently started playing is GTR. It just came out in stores last weekend. It's fabulous. The sound of the cars is just amazing. If you never tried it, down the demo.
http://www.10tacle.com/gtr-game/

edit : for everybody who likes GPL but thinks the 67 is just to difficult, i translated a manual on how to install the 1965 mod and placed it online. The website is not finished yet, only thing that is finished is this translation. (i lack time because i'm fighting for the championship 65 mod in Belgium , place 2nd so far only 2 points behind the leader)
So if you want you can give it a go ;-) http://www.freewebs.com/old_mumhra/howtoinstallgpl.htm

[rocketalces]

Thanks for the info.
I'll rather spend my money on GTR then. Won't prevent me froml buying Flatout once its in the budget series, lol.

[ZOtm_BigDOGGe]

Some of these have already been addressed in KC's new FLATOUT forum.


1. No proper online gameplay.

The US release will be coming out in a few months, and the multiplayer portion is being revamped. BugBear says it will be quite an improvement. We'll have to wait 'n see...


2. It lacks realism.

...Another thing that i dislike is the nos-system in the cars.

.....it won't ever be a match for MTM2 or GPL.


Flatout is listed as an arcade game, not a true-to-life driving sim. It isn't intended to be competing with realistic sims like GPL or SCGT. If you want realism, then Flatout is not for you.


------------------

KC has been having a lot of fun with it, and wrote the company asking for information about multiplayer and add-ons. He received a pretty good replay. For instance:

KC: You mention that there are “major improvements” in the US release regarding Internet Multiplayer.


Bugbear: The US version features have been locked already a while ago and we are now finishing them up. I'm pretty sure everybody will welcome the major improvements to online play.


The full reply can be seen in this thread:
http://vales.com/flatout/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=44


Also, KC is working on his own multiplayer software. read about it at:
http://vales.com/flatout/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=57

.

[OLD_mumhra]

I like sims BD, but i also like other, more arcade-like games.
MTM2 is one of the best games ever, but it's not a sim.

So if you want it i won't compare flatout with MTM2.
I think MTM2 is better because the online play is heaps better. But as you say they are coming out with a new version so hopefully this will be solved.
The 2nd thing why MTM2 is better is because of the possibility to make tracks and addons. In flatout you have 5 (i think) types of tracks and that's it. Every type of track had 4 (or something) different layouts and i think everything is very similar. In MTM2 you have all those different looking tracks. From desert races to racing in the backyard. Just gives the game that little extra.

But if the online play would be fixed and there will be a release of a program like GuitarBill's traxx so everyone could make tracks it would be as good as MTM2.
But so far, i'm still waiting for it [;)]

But if i have to choose between GTR and flatout like rocketalces says i would take GTR without even thinking about it. GTR is heaps more difficult but i think you can play it for a longer period of time because it's more difficult to setup the car etc. But that's just me liking sims more probably.

[Eat Dirt]

Time I throw my part in here.

My favrote racing game as of right now, would have to be GT4. Awsoem grapics, Awsome Racing game play, Awsome realism. The game is everything a racing game should be. Fine tuning, Upgrades and the way cars react all are exelent. In short, If you are car shoping, Gt4 would be the best option for a test drive (with a wheel and pads) if no test drives where avalable.

[ZOtm_BigDOGGe]

I like the Gran Turismo series as well. I mentioned it already in my first post in this thread.

The driving physics are simulated well, but even though I enjoy it, none of the GT versions allow for visible impact damage, so I wouldn't call it realistic myself. You can bounce off walls and other cars without getting so much as a scratch.

Plus, it's not nor ever will be available for the PC. Sony counts on it to sell Playstations (GT1 is the main reason I bought a Playstation-1 years ago).

[OLD_mumhra]

Time I throw my part in here.

My favrote racing game as of right now, would have to be GT4. Awsoem grapics, Awsome Racing game play, Awsome realism. The game is everything a racing game should be. Fine tuning, Upgrades and the way cars react all are exelent. In short, If you are car shoping, Gt4 would be the best option for a test drive (with a wheel and pads) if no test drives where avalable.

Well, to be honoust... GT4 rules in graphics, it has a fantastic racing game play but it's everything but realistic.
The phrase on the box "ultimate driving simulation" gives me the feeling i should throw up.

OK, they worked hard in making the cars feel like real cars (u can feel the difference between an FWD, a RWD and an AWD) but that's about it.
If you have ever driven on a real race track this game just makes you laugh. They started out with a very realistic game but they gave into selling numbers by making their game more spectacular then real racing is. They have taken an arcade route, which is fine by me but if so pls loose the titel on the box...

I live near the Nurburgring so i often go their to drive a few laps. A while ago i found this on the net : http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthrea ... e=22&pp=20
a movie of someone driving the ring with the Sauber Mercedes in GT4. 360 km/h over Schwedenkraus hahahaha, have you ever seen the ring ??? at 360 over Schwedenkraus you would be in heaven now [:P] . Also i always see a little light lighting up. I've been told that is throttle control [bump] . Where is the realism ???

I found several movies and most just make me laugh. This game has nothing to do with realism but with fun.
i see people making slides which are just unbelievable. Where is the tyrewear ??? And brake wear ??? and brake fade ??? Do the tyres get dirty when you get off the groove ??? Do cars with carbon-fibre brakes stop more difficult when brakes are cold ??? Do cars get into trouble when you speedshift to often ??? Can you overrev when shifting down ??? Where the hell is the clutch pedal on that special wheel that can turn 900° ??? In fact, where is the clutch in this game ??? Does the grooveline get more and more visible when driving several laps ???

This are things i'm looking for when i want to play a sim. And none of the above are modelled correctly in GT4. They have tried some (like tyrewear) but they failed to make it correct.
Also i hate the fact that you can bump into your opponents without getting a serious penalty for that. Your car should start vibrating after a serious knock, but it just does nothing.

When it comes to realism GTR and GPL rule over GT4 bigtime. I'm not the only one who thinks like that : http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/driving/gra ... 16467.html But don't get me wrong, GT4 is a fun game. I love playing it. But the thing i miss the most is a serious online gameplay. To bad PS2 can't make that happen. In GTR we are driving with 40 people (25 on dedicated servers) online. Think it will take a while before the PS2 is capable of doing just that.

What bugs me also a lot is the price. GT4 uses the same engine as GT3. It just has more cars, more tracks and better graphics. In fact it's an extension of GT3. And a very expensive one...

So please... you can tell me what you want about GT4. Graphics are awesome, game is big fun and cars are well modelled. They feel like they drive when they just come out of the shop. But that's about it what concerns realism because the rest of the reality in the game is just a big joke...

[OLD_mumhra]

I'd like to comment a little further on this because you may have gotten the wrong idea from my previous post.

I never said i disliked GT4. I'm a fan of the entire GP-series. It's an awesome game and is hughe fun to play. The graphics are just amazing and the feel of the cars is very good.
It's just not a sim. That does not mean it's not a good game... Look at MTM2. One of the best race games ever, but it's far from a sim. Very far ...

If you want to know what it feels like to drive a racing car, buy it. It has a little flaws, but it comes close. What bugs me is that irl you can't just floor a +600hp race car like you can in GT4. The cornering however is very good modelled.
But if you want to know what it feels like to drive a real race, where you have to concider tyre wear, tyre temps, fuel consumption, clutch and it's failures, pitstop strategy, brake fade, oil pressure, general failure of the car, crashes,.... forget about GT4 and buy a sim. GT4 is a great game, but it lacks just about anything a sim should have. All it has is good feeling of the cars and a phrase on the box saying it's a sim.

If you want a sim try one of the following :

1. GPL (demo : http://www.bhmotorsports.com/download/6447) and if you think it's to difficult mod it with the 65 mod like i told earlier
2. GTR (2 amazing demo's : http://www.10tacle.com/gtr-game/en/index.php?Homepage)
3. rfactor (multiplayer demo : http://www.rfactor.net/downloads.shtml you can play alone by hosting a mp game and just check the pasword box. If noone knows the pw you can drive alone)
4. GTP which is a mod of Nacar2003 (download : http://redlinedevelopments.com/)
5. spirits of 76 which is a mod of F1challenge. (download : http://racesims.de/newsite/)

Now all these games are hardcore sims. If you want to play it like it should be play just kill all aids. i don't wont traction control (let alone throttle help) or ABS (let alone brake help). i don't want steering help, or clutch help, or auto transmissions, or whatever. I want to be in control, not my comp...

Most people will say when playing games like this that GT4 is more fun. Well, that's fine by me. I can't argue with that. Every person has a different opinion to what fun is. But what i can argue with is if GT4 is "real" or not. I take the 2nd answer.

If you want to know how it looks like to drive a sim, just look at these 2 movies.
1st being of a guy who's playing GPL driving a lap on Rouen-les-Essarts. He has 3 pedals and an H-shifter. You'll need realplayer to view this : http://jason.speedgeezers.com/Chriso-at-Rouen.mpg (right click and "save target as"
2nd film being the same guy but you only see his feet. Amazing how he uses 3 pedals at the same time, just like real racers do. This is filmed while he was racing on Silverstone : http://jason.speedgeezers.com/Chriso-at-Silverstone.mpg (again right click and "save target as" but this one you can view in media player.