Speed Trail Experiment

NIRco_uLtRaMaX_ · Post by **NIRco_uLtRaMaX_** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:36 am

Perhaps we will know more, once others post what they are getting with there machines on these tracks...... I for one am colored courious [(-:]

I will also try some times with my Nvidia Ge force FX 5200 Ultra vid card shortly.

And I also have a P2 that I got from a friend that owns a comp store. I dont know the specs of this machine, but I will find out once I hook it up.

I also have a P1, made to run on Win 95, that I upgraded to 98se. I never tryed MTM2 on it, but I suspect that it might run the game poorly. I also don't know the spec's on that machine either. Looks like I got homework to do, lol.

SLO_SCATTER · Post by **SLO_SCATTER** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:47 am

I have a 1.4ghz processor, 256mb ram, & a 32mb video card.

Straight Shooter: Hardware mode
Garage: 2000 m/s
Transmission: Automatic
Time: 1:07.69

Marty54's run: Hardware mode
Garage: 2000 m/s
Transmission: Automatic
Time: 0:59.88

Great Wall of China: Hardware mode
Garage: 2000 m/s
Transmission: Automatic
Time: 0:57.19

CPR Straight: Hardware mode
Garage: 2000 m/s
Transmission: Automatic
Time: 0:51.83

CPR Straight: Hardware mode
Garage: 2000 s/s
Transmission: Automatic
Time: 0:51.72

CPR Straight: Software mode
Garage: 2000 s/s
Transmission: Automatic
Time: 0:51.72

OLD_mumhra · Post by **OLD_mumhra** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:05 pm

i can't understand why you guys are trying this on tracks allready made.
It isn't difficult to make a straight end in traxx where start and finish are at the same place since if you drive of on side of the map you just appear on the other side.

So, just make track without cp's, just a straight end. Take 2000 ss as default setting, use auto gearing and just floor it.
Then compare the times you guys have so you can really know if the hardware you have affects your monster truck speed.

I'll be happy to upload my results if someone was to make and upload that track. (amd 1600+ with gforce 4 ti4200 128 mbyte here)

I think it's a shame if you can go faster with a slower comp because it means some guys have an advantage... but hey, we've played the game long enough with that 'bug' in it, so i'm not going to stop playing mtm2 because of that...

TurnToAshes · Post by **TurnToAshes** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:56 pm

Maybe this one can help?

http://www.freewebs.com/devastar/rechtdoor.rar
http://cownap.com/~forum/zips/rechtdoor.rar

Straigt away, underground is Cement

Post by **Phineus** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:34 pm

CPR straight (way too many obstacles)[pre]
computer settings, garage settings, frame rate, speed, rpm, lap
hardware/keyboard, 2000 s s manual, 60 110, 6300 0:50.42
hardware/stick, 2000 s s auto, 60 99, 5900 0:55.81
[/pre]

> rechtdoor.rar

You need two checkpoints, or it won't time properly.

mumhra, you're right, of course. Straight and flat is probably the most accurate. However, I was hoping that we wouldn't kill some of the faster racers out of boredom. The straights were sitting there ready-made and waiting to be used. I think uLtRaMaX's and Malibu's results are revealing despite any draw backs the straights may have. But if Ashes adds in another checkpoint, then we'll see what that turns up as well.

I think the point here is not that older computers are always faster. Mal's new one makes mine old in comparison but there is no advantage for all that. And just because this has been a part of the game for so long, doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to it. Had I raced tourneys from the beginning, then maybe I would have brought up the topic before now. But I didn't. But I have now, and when I see people passing me like I'm riding the brake, I want to know the reason why.

TurnToAshes · Post by **TurnToAshes** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:41 pm

Phineus wrote:You need two checkpoints, or it won't time properly.

1 CP added,

Same link as before:
http://www.freewebs.com/devastar/rechtdoor.rar
http://cownap.com/~forum/zips/rechtdoor.rar

Post by **Phineus** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:42 pm

Ashes' Speed Test [pre]
computer settings, garage settings, frame rate, speed, rpm, lap
hardware/keyboard, 2000 s s manual, 60 110, 6300 0:50.62
F4 ware/keyboard, 2000 s s manual, 38 110, 6300 0:50.62
software/keyboard, 2000 s s manual, 52 110, 6300 0:50.62

hardware/keyboard, 2000 s s auto, 60 108, 6150 0:51.95
F4 ware/keyboard, 2000 s s auto, 39 108, 6150 0:51.95
software/keyboard, 2000 s s auto, 51 108, 6150 0:51.95

hardware/stick, 2000 s s manual, 60 101, 5900 0:54.53
F4 ware/stick, 2000 s s manual, 38 101, 5900 0:54.48
software/stick, 2000 s s manual, 52 102, 5950 0:54.34

hardware/stick, 2000 s s auto, 60 99, 5900 0:56.01
F4 ware/stick, 2000 s s auto, 39 99, 5900 0:56.01
software/stick, 2000 s s auto, 52 99, 5900 0:56.17 [/pre]

For me, render mode makes no real difference. Manual is faster than auto, and keyboard is faster than the stick I have

Malibu350 · Post by **Malibu350** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:49 pm

Oh great, two more tracks?! 144 laps on three computers was not enough for you huh?

Post by **Phineus** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:23 pm

I'm not complaining. But since Ashes went to the trouble, I figured I might as well run it.

NIRco_uLtRaMaX_ · Post by **NIRco_uLtRaMaX_** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:01 pm

I second what Mal said, LOL.

It's cool though, but I got some catching up to do, as stated im my last post, I was gonna try my geForce 4 FX 5200 Ultra card, and try and get that P2 up and running, just to see what it can do, and now run these.

I had a league tonite, so I was'nt able to run times on thoes yet, so I'll come up with some more stats in a couple of days.

Since were talking lap times here.....

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/ ... _00_21.jpg

the PPRL was running Pine Run tonite, and I was able to get some HOF times on it.

Replay availibe apon request ;)

Post by **Phineus** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:32 pm

OVERALL SUMMARY OF WHAT WE HAVE SO FAR

My summary of max's trials here (his long hand in the post above it)
viewtopic.php?p=27307#27307

Virtually no difference between software and hardware modes, regardless of clock speed. And marginal benefit using manual rather than auto transmission.

I could not come close to your times until I ditched the controller.

Summary of mal's trials here
http://malibu350.com/mtmg/SpeedTrail.jpg

Very close times across the board, with the 233 having a slight edge in most groups, but with the 400 holding its own in a couple.

I could not, for the most part, touch your times at all.

I don't think we need to worry about Wint's track [ edit, I see he agrees ] since Ashes removed the models in his.

I got thorough with Ashes since my previous notes seemed sketchy compared to what you guys were doing.
viewtopic.php?p=27331#27331

Pending other discoveries, I'm leaning toward the controller as my biggest set back.

[ edit ]

http://cownap.com/~tracks/details.cgi?t=1561 garage sets?

Malibu350 · Post by **Malibu350** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:38 am

interesting how ashes' track is slightly faster than wints here with the faster processors... perhaps texture grip/type?

By and large I find that the differences in overall speed by comparrison of processing insignificant. IMhO the clarity and smooth frame rates of the higher ends balance the scales when corners are implemented into the equation.

SpeedTrail2.jpg

rocket science... roflol

Post by **Phineus** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:59 am

Malibu350 wrote:interesting how ashes' track is slightly faster than wints here with the faster processors... perhaps texture grip/type?

I tried to give Wint's the edge by having the cars give me a push but they kept slipping underneath.

Malibu350 wrote:By and large I find that the differences in overall speed by comparrison of processing insignificant.

On straight shooter you range from 1:05 to 1:08. It's similar for great wall and marty's. The interesting thing I see, tho, is that your 450 and 3 ghz times on ashes' track match my keyboard times exactly.... which would seem to deny processor influence and underscore my controller issue.

I don't know if there's enough here to jump to any conclusions, but patterns are beginning to emerge.

Thanks for running those.

SLO_COPE · Post by **SLO_COPE** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:33 am

Sorry - was away for the weekend so I couldn't track this thread.

According to cope, if you and I race, a circuit or rally, and we use the same garage sets, then the winner will be the one who drives best that day. I disagree. If I cannot get the rpms, the top speed, whatever, then there is nothing I can do, regardless of how well I might drive, to contend with another racer who can achieve those things.

No, Cope was speaking in general terms, not referring to you and MaX or you and anyone specifically. I already know that all things being equal (electrically/mechanically), if you raced MaX you'd lose, Phin . . . probably every time lol.

The reason I asked about your rpms had nothing to do with what type of controller you used or whether you even used one. The fact is 8500 is the norm in park or neutral, and it has nothing to do with controller type. It's not something certain racers "achieve" via adjustments, fine tuning or tweaking. You claimed you were losing 4 secs on a track, getting passed routinely and wasn't able to clear jumps . . . and after thinking about it, I recalled having a problem with the accelerator on my pedal base (bad potentiometer). I was getting passed by people who normally never passed me and basically not racing the way I was accustomed to . . . or so I thought. A few days later I happened to notice that my tach was maxing out around 8100 rpms when in the air with my gas pedal fully depressed, which explained why I was getting my doors blown off. Still, I tried to steer clear of assuming anything about your particular situation. However, since I didn't have time to run tracks and gather data, I simply wanted to know if you were getting 8500 rpms in neutral, which in retrospect probably would've answered at least a few questions early on.

So . . . bad controller, eh? Shocker lol. Got a backup? Getting a new one or are you just going to tough it out with keys?

ch_2005 · Post by **ch_2005** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:11 am

If it's controller problems:
Might want to check out Z-mode (GOLD->CTRL+Y->CTRL+Z->CTRL+Y) to see the throttle percentage and Brake Percentage.
Might have throttle and Brake at the same time.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:16 am

u can really just go to windows CP, then gaming controlers and calibrate your controller, even if it is USB, this will fix any problems of the controler not having the full X or Y axis in a certain direction

OLD_mumhra · Post by **OLD_mumhra** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:27 pm

Phineus wrote:
mumhra, you're right, of course. Straight and flat is probably the most accurate. However, I was hoping that we wouldn't kill some of the faster racers out of boredom. The straights were sitting there ready-made and waiting to be used. I think uLtRaMaX's and Malibu's results are revealing despite any draw backs the straights may have. But if Ashes adds in another checkpoint, then we'll see what that turns up as well.

I know it's boaring Phin, but it's the only correct test. Doing a test that isn't correct has no meaning at all.
Even if you only have 1 fast corner it just is to much.
For example, we both have a speed of 110 mph at a straight end and are at exactly the same position. There is 1 turn that i take at 90 mph, you take it at 88 mph. I am not only faster in the turn, but i will be faster for a very long period of time on the straight end after that turn. Because if we both hit the throtlle at the same time you will only be driving 93 mph when i'm driving 95 mph, you will only be doing 98 when i will be doing 100, you will only be doing 103 when i'm doing 105,.... The amount of time you will loose is way more then you will think at first.

That said, i should start doing Ashes test. But i'm don't have that much time on my hands lol. So i will stop typing now and start doing that test. But i won't be able to finish it today since it's almost sleeping time. I hope to have everything ready this time tomorrow... cyaz [;)]

edit : can someone plz tell me how you can read speed and rpm correctly ? With those analog meters it's kinda difficult to tell lol. The speedometer just gives 110 mph, but i think i'm going faster.

edit 2 : So i've done your first test. 2000ss, hardware, keyboard, manual gearing. Time 50.62. Exactly the same as Phin's...
But i think everybody will have 50.62 . But is 50.62 in mtm2 on my comp exactly the same as 50.62 in mtm2 on an other guys comp ? i doubt it ... But the only way to find out is to drive this track online i guess.

Post by **Phineus** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:22 pm

> can someone plz tell me how you can read speed and rpm correctly ?

I just read the dial as if it was a clock. You can approximate pretty closely.

> Time 50.62. Exactly the same as Phin's... and Malibu350's

Confirmation is good. I have to run a couple tests on my controller before I'll be ready to try anything online. No way I can keep up with Mal and Bim on keyboard.

SLO_COPE · Post by **SLO_COPE** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:32 pm

Here's what you should get in neurtal or park. Sure, I say 8500, but the reality is it's just an approximation, albeit a close one.

This is what I was getting when I discovered the bad potentiometer a few years back, and believe you me, there's a HUGE performance drop between the two.

Post by **Phineus** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:48 pm

Fersure, Cope. I was getting like 6500-6800 in neutral. You mentioning rpms is what got me to try with the keyboard. There has to be reasons but digging them up can be tricky. The rpms-to-controller connection was a good clue. At the moment, I'm sitting like your tach2.jpg, and the results would seem correct.

Ashes' Speed Test [pre]
When, computer settings, garage settings, frame rate, speed, rpm, lap
Then, hardware/keyboard, 2000 s s manual, 60 110, 6300 0:50.62
Now, hardware/stick, 2000 s s manual, 60 109, 6200 0:50.96[/pre] Not quite there yet, so I'll have to look more into tweaking and calibrating (and then driving lessons, lol).