monster jam video game is out.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:26 pm

i can say my computer used to do that for two reasons ( I had both, 2 different occasions)
Your video card is faulty
Your processor is faulty

or related, your video is shrot on power
your processor is short on power.

Destroyerfan · Post by **Destroyerfan** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:03 pm

I just put a brand new video card in it, so i hope to god that its not the problem, but never thought about the processor though. I will definetely keep those in mind, thanks Slayer

N8 · Post by N8 » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:04 pm

AvengerFan,
Go to your system properties(via ctrl panel or right click on my computer & hit properties), advanced tab, startup & recovery, settings button, system failure, & see if "automatically restart" is checked. If so, uncheck it & see if you get a BSOD next time rather than a restart. If so, you'll know it's some sort of error & hopefully the error description will help you solve it. Other than that, I'm not sure. Runs fine on the lower resolutions on my laptop - AMD TK-53 (1.7ghz), 1GB memory, 256MB ATI X1150.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:39 pm

mine was screwy when i first got my new video card, then i took it back and they ordered me one from a different manufacturer, havent had a problem since. Why I never buy my hardware from box stores, only from dealers, cause if it doesn't work, they take care of you.

Destroyerfan · Post by **Destroyerfan** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:24 pm

The box for "automatically restart" was checked, so i unchecked it and the next time it did it, i did get the BSOD. It read alot about the new hardware (video card), so i uninstalled it and re-installed it again but it does the same thing, so i'm thinking that something just doesn't have enough power in the computer. I might take the card back and ask though, because the computer never did this before i put the card in. Thanks for your help guys, i really appreciate it

Disposable · Post by **Disposable** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:59 pm

I had that trouble with Tomb Raider Legend. The game would crash the system with no warning after a few minutes play.
I would have to restart my PC........Turned out to be the PSU not giving enough power to the graphics card.
Changed the PSU for a more powerful one, and the problem was solved!
Also on most newer Graphics Cards, there is an extra power cable that needs connecting from the PSU, it is usually a floppy drive power plug.
Look on your graphics card manual to see if the card needs powering in this way.

Drive2Survive · Post by **Drive2Survive** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:52 pm

AvengerFan wrote:i did get the BSOD. It read alot about the new hardware (video card), so i uninstalled it and re-installed it again but it does the same thing

At one point I was getting BSODs which were related to the graphics drivers (it reported a problem with nv4disp.dll). If you haven't already, before you take it back you should download and install the latest drivers for your card and try it again. The ones that come on the CD are generally obsolete before you open the box and not worth relying on.

That said, it's still likely your issue is due to power or faulty hardware as Slayer and Disposable suggest, since it is a new card, you might have overstepped what your PSU can deliver.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:58 pm

I know version 163.75 is bugged to sh**. I'm using 93.71 and it works great. (of nVidia)

Destroyerfan · Post by **Destroyerfan** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:43 pm

I looked at what drivers to download, and i looked for version 93.71, but it wasn't compatible with my new card. When i searched for mine the only version that came up was 163.75, and listening to Slayer i didn't really want to download that one. I've got the Nvidia GeForce 8500 GT and i'm really thinking that is just a power problem, because now that i think about it (which i should have earlier) that is a big jump from what the original was made for. There is a flat plug on the outside of the card but none of the cables that came with it have the same end to plug into it, and the ones inside the computer (i saw two) were not long enough to reach it. Should i just look into a new PSU then?

Drive2Survive · Post by **Drive2Survive** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:15 am

AvengerFan wrote:Should i just look into a new PSU then?

Possibly, but let's back the truck up a bit here first.

AvengerFan wrote:the only version that came up was 163.75, and listening to Slayer i didn't really want to download that one.

I'd give it a shot anyway, you have nothing to lose (except data...) and the drivers that came on your CD are probably close to this version anyway. You can roll back if they turn out to be less stable. What version do you have currently?

AvengerFan wrote:I've got the Nvidia GeForce 8500 GT and i'm really thinking that is just a power problem, because now that i think about it (which i should have earlier) that is a big jump from what the original was made for.

What did you have before?
What's the capacity of your PSU? (there should be a something like a sticker on the side that tells you)

8500 GT power consumption = 40 Watts which is actually not that big. It's always possible that it might be enough to be exceeding the capacity of your PSU, depending on what else you have attached, but it doesn't seem like a big amount to me. If you were running an 8800 Ultra, then I'd worry

AvengerFan wrote:There is a flat plug on the outside of the card but none of the cables that came with it have the same end to plug into it, and the ones inside the computer (i saw two) were not long enough to reach it.

Hmm, I suspect you may be looking at the rear bracket at the back of your PC where you plug your monitor in? If so, that other plug would be for output, there are usually different sockets for analog and digital video connection.
When talking about needing to connect extra power cables to power the graphics card, what you look for is one (or sometimes even two) rectangular plugs that are mounted on the card surface at the opposite end of the metal bracket (example). These are on the part of the card that is inside the computer, so the power cables should easily be able to reach (if not, you can buy lengths of power cable/split cables that will extend your length).

All that said, I've done some quick Googling and it looks to me like the 8500/8600 doesn't require any extra power cables, as it doesn't appear to have any plugs for internal power cables (generally only the premium cards like the 8800 do). I'm not totally familiar though, so can anyone confirm this?

Destroyerfan · Post by **Destroyerfan** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:41 pm

Okay, i looked inside and on the sticker I saw a couple different wattage numbers. One said output 300W max, and there were two below it that said 180W max and the other said 288W max. The only thing i can tell you is that the old video card that was in here was the original that came with the computer, other than that i'm really not sure. As for the card itself, there weren't any actual plugs mounted on it, the only one (you probably saw it in the picture) was the tab-like one on the side that is no thicker than the card itself. I did download and install the 163.75 driver version and at times it seems to have helped a little bit, but i still get the same problem. Sorry guys, you are going to have to bear with me here, I know my way around a computer on the screen, but when you get to internal stuff, i'm still new.

Disposable · Post by **Disposable** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:14 pm

Unless your PSU is a reasonably well known branded name, you can guarantee that you will get nowhere near 300 watts of power.
I would say todays standard for games/graphics cards means you should have a PSU that can supply at least 500 watts of power.
But remember that just because a PSU says on a label that it provides this sort of wattage, does not mean a thing unless the PSU is a good quality branded version, and that means spending more on it's purchase.

Destroyerfan · Post by **Destroyerfan** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:37 pm

Yeah, I don't know too much about the big brand names, but the name on the PSU is Bestec, and it is the one that originally came on the computer, and this computer wasn't originally set up for gaming. Basically turning an office computer into a gaming computer.

Disposable · Post by **Disposable** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:47 pm

Bestec are made and sold by Maplins, and are at best a budget brand.
Typically a 300 watt bestec will cost you on the down side of £30/$60.
I would suggest £50/$100 as a starting price for a good reliable PSU.
You get what you pay for!

Drive2Survive · Post by **Drive2Survive** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:14 am

AvengerFan wrote:output 300W max ... Basically turning an office computer into a gaming computer.

Yeah, that probably explains it. 300W is really a smallish amount these days, and the original office computer probably wasn't designed with upgradability in mind.

The problem with PSU ratings is that there is no standard way for labelling them. The efficiency of a PSU actually decreases as it gets hotter, and hence so does the output, so the majority of vendors rate the outputs of their PSUs for unrealistically cool temperatures (and the unscrupulous ones flat out lie). Which is why even if it's labelled 300W, it's unlikely to be capable of actually delivering that much power.

Assuming your problem is due to insufficient power - it sounds like your PC "almost" works with that "budget" 300W PSU and only needs a little bit more. Ideally you should overbudget on PSU capacity and depending on whether you have any other upgrades planned will determine how much you should overbudget. Since your graphics card is brand new I'm guessing you won't be changing that again, and unless you plan to run heaps of hard drives for example, 400W should be ample for your computer IMO.

Antec and Seasonic are two well-regarded PSU brands, but there are of course many other names that are very good - as Disposable says you can let price be your guide - if a PSU has a price that seems too good to be true, it generally is.

BTW, before you buy - take another look at the sticker on your current PSU, you should see a table with amperage ratings for different voltages (eg. 12V | 20A, etc). You should ensure that any new PSU you buy equals or exceeds these values. You will also need to inspect the plugs on your current PSU (and other hardware that's attached to it) and make sure the replacement has the same plugs.

I can't say with confidence that a new PSU will fix your problem, but it seems likely that it could. Only way to find out is probably to put money down on a new one, although if you are lucky you might find a friend who will loan you a higher-capacity PSU to test with before you go shopping?

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:40 am

I hear lots of talk of these PSu issues, and I've never had one, how can u tell what ur wattage is on one?

Like I can say mine has 3 cables, 1 goes to mobo, I have one to video card, and the last one I have split between the 2 HDD's, the 2 CD drives, and the 4 fans. And I've never had a power issue. but my PSU sounds small, considering my old 1997 computer has like 9 power cables sticking out of it unused

Drive2Survive · Post by **Drive2Survive** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:34 am

Slayer wrote:how can u tell what ur wattage is on one?

Don't know. In the review I linked before, as well as for example this PSU test, they talk about using a wattage meter to measure the power consumption of the system (as drawn from the wall socket). I suppose if you wanted to determine the maximum output of your PSU, you'd put a wattage meter between it and the wall socket, and watch what figures it shows as you load it up until it cuts out.

Slayer wrote:Like I can say mine has 3 cables... but my PSU sounds small, considering my old 1997 computer has like 9 power cables sticking out of it unused

Don't know again. Less cables might just be a cost saver. I'm pretty sure no PC from 1997 uses anything like the amount of watts we do in 2007.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:45 am

but the wattage between the wall and PSU should be 110 or 220 depending on what its set at shouldnt it (The switch on the back of the PSU)

and that 1997 is only using a mobo one, a HDD one, and a CD drive one, no splits. The rest are just coiled up inside

Disposable · Post by **Disposable** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:23 am

You can to a limited extent tell if your PSU is being overworked. As an example, the way I was advised to check my PSU for competence, was to run a graphics intensive game, and during play to feel the side of my tower where the PSU resides. If the PSU was hand hot (That is hot, but you can still lay your hand flat on that spot), then the PSU is probably struggling to provide the correct wattage needed.
You should be able to touch the PSU side of the case, and it should be virtually cold, or at least very cool.

In answer to Slayer: The 100/220 figures you mention are the Voltage specs not the Wattage specs. The PSU is designed to spread it's capacity of say 300 watts to all the components that require power. So for example, your MoBo may need 30 watts of power to power up, your DVD's another 30 watts each, then your Hard Drives may need 50 watts, and if you have 2, that is 100 watts used. Then your sound card and USB devices need power, also your keyboard and mouse, and last and probably most hungry of all for power is your Graphics card and the game that you are running.

So 300 watts of power does not go very far with a modern computer and it's needs.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:14 pm

my PSU's have always been very hot, the hottest things in my system, but I'm not noticing any performance trouble.