Track: Whynni's Ride

Whynni · Post by **Whynni** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:13 am

Hello!

Somehow, the track-making virus has reached me again!

I suddenly decided to make this track for my friend SLO_COPE.

Of course, I would like to release it properly. I was therefore wondering if people are interested in testing it. Somebody already beta-tested it, but I would like to have more opinions. The track can be downloaded here.

Quick glance:

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:38 am

ok, computer trucks suck at driving on the first corner, the cow accross the checkpoint was partially in the ground. After that tunnel liek thing, there is houses on the other side, the textures under the houses are messed up and are bright white cutting into the road. Texttures everywhere else look washed out (maybe the pallete). the greyish road thingy is a strange type of tile it seems but it appears to be "default" or "dirt" maybe it should be cement, it looks kind of like its cement. The red texture in the valley seems out of place. Flower textures dont blend with teh grass aroudn them, to obviously square looking. Model over water makes it drive over like water, put some ground boxes above or below it to fix that. Other bridges were good, im not a fan of the farm road music but thats your choice. Track layout was very good

on 1-10 scale

Textures: 3
Lots of glitches in textures but your snow to grass textures were nicely done. Need more varity on tile types (grass, dirt, rock etc)

Model placement: 6
Models were in fairly good spots tho some like the ramp made out of fences seem forced and unnatural.

Landscaping: 8
The track was not to fast or to slow, nocrazy jumps or long straights, no odd corners or funky holes, no jumps that were impossible to make, a well laid out track.

Overall feel: 6
It felt like i was driving in the twilight zone, the whole world is washed out, the track didn't bore me which is a good thing, but with the whole world seemingly the same texture type (dirt or default, i couldnt tell which) it seems unrealistic for 1 but it also makes it less stratigic because ur not fighting for the road because you have more traction there. Computer truck drive like little old ladies just straight off the track and I never saw them again until just before the finish line.

Overall score: 5
Work on it. The washed out thing could just be me, my monitor does sort of suck, its a wide screen laptop, but I've raced other mtm2 tracks and they didn't feel washed out like yours does.

I hope this helps you

Post by **Phineus** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:47 pm

Is that Emma ? It's not downloading for me at the moment but I'll have a look a bit later ;-)

SLO_COPE · Post by **SLO_COPE** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:09 pm

Yep, it's her. I think she's at a point in her life where she can't decide what name she wants to use . . . kinda like you lol.

I'm in the process of making a replay so she can decide whether or not she should make some adjustments. It's kind of a long track, which means it's harder to get a clean run, but as soon as I get a decent one I'll upload that baby. I'll post a few other comments/pics tonight as well.

Oh, the track d/led for me, but the server is incredibly slow today.

Wint · Post by **Wint** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:33 pm

I would know the author of this track just by looking at it.

Hey! It's great to see you back again Whynni. Still driving Monster Patrol I see.

The track looks great and seems like lots of fun. I've only raced a couple of laps on it so I must come back later for a closer look.

I noticed some occasionally poor performance due to an overload of textures but I don't know if it's bad enough to worry about (my PC is not that great). Still, I'd like to supply you with an updated gazebo (seen in the lower left screenshot) - that will eliminate one 256x256 texture from the track. ;-)

The computer trucks have a lot of problems but there is one place in particular they all get stuck and even the heli can't help them out. Being for Cope (cheers Copey) I don't suppose the computer trucks matter as long as the on-screen map looks good - which it does.

SLO_COPE · Post by **SLO_COPE** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:03 pm

I would know the author of this track just by looking at it.

Ditto, Wint.

When I ran it for the first time, it was like taking a trip down memory lane. Her style is pretty unique, and this track is very reminiscent of her earlier works. Anyway, I'd better start taking a few pics. I don't have all day to spend in here yackin' with Wint talking about tracks lol.
___________________________________________________________

Here's a one-lap replay. There's a slight cut after cp 3 and one at 12 - that's all I found. I'd say leave the corner cut as is - it's not as easy to hit as it looks. As for cp 12, that's just a matter of moving the cp.

I'll be back later with more! Oh, unless you change things dramatically, as is it's about a 4:23 (1500 m/s, but I'd suggest 1600) lap time in case you want to include it in your readme.txt

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:20 am

just jope my review helps, it seemed like it had potential to be a good track, but it requires a bit more time into it i think, sharpe square textures can be ignored of course, but im not a fan of all the textures beign the same type

Post by **Phineus** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:12 pm

Let's see if I can pick up a couple of Slayer's points for everybody...

> computer trucks have problems

Computer trucks can be hard on the best of days, but I notice you have extra segments on all the corners. What I mean is <a href="http://mtm2.com/~forum/images/whynniridecheckpoints.jpg">here</a> - you can usually do without the one that's circled. But! There's no hard and fast rule. If it works, then it's good. And, of course, only if it matters to you. Lately, I'm happy if they'll even finish a lap. Sometimes I go around the whole course on segment 2 and make sure the ends point in the right direction. Sometimes generating from main will point them away from the next segment they are supposed to follow.

> the cow across the checkpoint is partially in the ground.

Yes, it pops up when you first go near it. Maybe inch it up a notch.

> After that tunnel like thing, there is houses on the other side, the textures under the houses are messed up and are bright white cutting into the road.

I don't know which one you mean, Slayer. Emma, if there is a texture name conflict then we should try to find out which it is so it doesn't spoil the look of your track.

> Textures everywhere else look washed out

Slayer, wipe the dust off your monitor, lol.

> The red texture in the valley seems out of place. Flower textures dont blend with teh grass aroudn them, to obviously square looking.

Slayer, this is a chosen style. Search the tracks for Whynni and Emma and you will find many many more with similar textures and composition.

> Model over water makes it drive over like water, put some ground boxes above or below it to fix that.

Yes, i think I noticed that too. Which bridge do you mean... so we're not mixed up here.

> Track layout was very good

Agree. However, we don't 'rate' beta tracks. We find the good and bad things and offer suggestions why they're good or not so good. Help make it a better track. Encouragement is the key. For example, Wint said...

> I noticed some occasionally poor performance due to an overload of textures but I don't know if it's bad enough to worry about

I think the car and truck near the finish line could be set to a higher scenery level. It wouldn't interfere with the race but would help racers on the sparse level. There are probably a couple other spots where a couple models could be bumped to normal or complex. Each little bit helps. And yes, a trimmer gazebo would be a help too.

> the replay

Thanks, Cope. I don't know if it'll help Whynni but it helped me. And I like cp12 the way it is. If you slow down like that in front of me, you're likely to overshoot that cp, hehehe.

Overall, I really like it. There are many many challenging spots throughout the track, and the terrain and scenery keep it interesting every step of the way. I look forward to the finished version.

Whynni · Post by **Whynni** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:23 am

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone so far who have tested my track.

And thank you for the feedback. I'm definitely going to look at all points mentioned, so I can improve my track. I can't watch the replay now, Cope, because I'm at my parents' house, but I will look at it on Sunday, when I'm back in Nijmegen.

Secondly, I'd like to declare that I changed my nickname to Whynni, a few years ago, but that I'm indeed the Emma you remember. I don't think I'm going to change my nickname again. Just so you know which name to use. I won't get angry, though, if you call me Emma.

Thirdly, I would like to say something to Slayer. I have to admit that I was a bit shocked at your reply, especially when reading the first sentences. I thought you were going to be all negativity about my track. When I read on, I concluded that it was a serious test attempt, but that you might want to learn a few things about giving feedback.
For instance, it looks much friendlier if you suggest things instead of saying which things you think are wrong or badly done. It's best to start with positive aspects and then continue with the things you think that need improvement. This is especially important on the Internet, because you can't hear the tone in someone's voice. Things can be misinterpreted.
I hope you don't take this hard. I am thankful that you took the time to test my track and to point out the things you did, but please take my advice in consideration.

Wint · Post by **Wint** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:32 am

>> Overall, I really like it.

Me too.

>> If you slow down like that in front of me, you're likely to overshoot that cp, hehehe.

'hehehe' indeed.

Okay, I have two suggestions to improve the track for the casual racer who doesn't know what's ahead.

Picture #1 - Smooth the road for the rookie but leave Cope's line alone.

Picture #2 - I'd call it a poorly engineeered jump, while Cope might consider it a nice challenge requiring throttle control (as his replay shows).

I consider both of those jumps frustrating for the casual driver following the most obvious path.

Overall, I'm having a lot of problems with the start-and-stop lag induced by the loading of large model textures, and driving with the keyboard I'm often being thrown around because of it. The texture overload seems to exist throughout the entire track. However, unless someone else complains I wouldn't worry about it, I see this on a lot of modern tracks and nobody seems to be bothered by it, it's just me and my old hardware I guess. The advice to set some scenery objects to normal or complex is good.

I will second Slayer's suggestion to use more than the 'default' texture type for everything. (test track)

Also: the updated gazebo. I had remade the gazebo for Rhubarb so it would render correctly (as the screenshot above shows you can't even see through the old one due to transparency issues). This newer one is a stand-alone version that's been reduced to two small textures instead of one large one, and it renders correctly (visible inside and out).

EDIT:

Whynni slipped in ahead of me while I was posting.

>> I'm at my parents' house

What! No MTM2 for Pelletje? [umm]

I'd like to mention that beta testing comments almost always focus on the negative.

I'd like to declare that I changed my nickname from Winterkill to Wint. [;)]

Whynni · Post by **Whynni** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:36 am

LOL, I wasn't really satisfied with those jumps myself. They were worse, though, because the jump in the second picture usually made me roll over when I landed. [bump]

I figured you had a minor change in your nick, Wint. It sounds good! Pelletje hasn't been racing for some time, and I think she would have to get used to Traxx again if she started making tracks again. She's currently addicted to the Sims and has made all kinds of clothes and floor tiles for that game. I forgot to take my track with me, otherwise I could have shown it to her. Maybe she'll get affected by the track-making-virus again once I show it to her.

>> I'd like to mention that beta testing comments almost always focus on the negative.

Yes, I understand that, and I don't mind getting feedback at all (otherwise I wouldn't have posted this thread

). I was just a bit dismayed by the way it was given to me in Slayer's post. I hope he doesn't mind my previous post. [uhoh]

SLO_COPE · Post by **SLO_COPE** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:48 pm

I'd like to declare that I "haven't" changed my nickname, and I "won't" be changing it . . . ever lol.

I agree with Wint about the jump; it's frustrating, and because of the roughness and the way the road is laid out up to the jump-off point, it doesn't allow you to build sufficient momentum to clear the dang thing, which is why I came up with the alternate method shown in the replay. As I said, it's not easy using that alternate line, but in my humble opinion shortcuts, if they exist, shouldn't be ice cream and cake lol. They should yield better results for executing them properly, but they should also exact a higher price screwing them up. That's just a little Cope philosophy there . . . not that anyone really cares, I'm sure lol. Anyway, I'd recommend smoothing it out a touch, as Wint suggested. In doing so the line I used would probably become unecessary.

The snow textures here have a few seams. Everytime I made that jump my eyes would be drawn to that spot . . . and it just bugged me lol.

Here's the bridge Slayer referred to as "slippery", which it is. Course, if you approach the bridge as I did in the replay you won't have a problem, but negating the effect (if possible) is the best solution.

You have some really, really heavy picnic tables here, lady lol. That things are brutal! I figured I could cut the corner there, but uh . . . those tables changed my mind lol. Also, the model with the vertical line . . . the collision properties are just a hair off. If you cut it really close, you'll scrape up against a non-visible portion of the model.

Lastly, the groundboxhere stops you dead when you land. Yep, slowing up before the jump helps, as well as downshifting into 2nd, maintaining full throttle, then upshifting to 3rd upon landing works, but I thought I'd mention it. Given the design I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it, however.

I haven't noticed the lag Wint referred to. I'll have to run it on my son's computer to see if it shows up on his. I'll get a few of the guys together to run it online as well to see if it shows up during actual gameplay. If not, I'd highly recommend ignoring Wint, Whynni lol.

Now for a few non-pertinent comments:

> Textures everywhere else look washed out

Slayer, wipe the dust off your monitor, lol.

LOLOL

I like cp12 the way it is. If you slow down like that in front of me, you're likely to overshoot that cp, hehehe.

You're obviously assuming that you'd be within striking distance, pal. I seriously doubt it, but if by some miracle you were, the 'ole H-H trick at the jump off point would take care of that lol. Oh, and as much as I like challenging shortcuts like this, if you took it out by moving the cp, I wouldn't complain.

The reason I say that is because maniac drivers (like Phin) would ruin the shortcut, turning it into a rumble . . . a pile-up point lol.

Whynni · Post by **Whynni** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am

I just returned to my room, so I can finally work on my track again.

I wanted to go back to Nijmegen yesterday, but I was ill this weekend, so I had to get better first. [uhoh]

Wint, thanks for the updated Gazebo!

Thanks for the replay, Cope. You did a nice lap there, although I'm wondering if you even looked at the scenery, until you bumped into one of the picnic tables.

Phin, I added those extra segments in the corners so the map looks nice, but I'll see what I can do to make the trucks at least finish a lap. Sometimes the trucks suddenly decide to drive in a circle when they've reached a corner, which is really stupid. I have decided that the computer trucks are morans and are incompetent drivers.

After that tunnel like thing, there is houses on the other side, the textures under the houses are messed up and are bright white cutting into the road.

I'm not sure which ones you mean, Slayer, but I guess you mean this section. I suppose it looks different on your comp. Could you point out which textures look weird?

Model over water makes it drive over like water, put some ground boxes above or below it to fix that.

Thanks for letting me know how to fix that problem. I didn't like that myself, but I wasn't sure how to solve it.

I'd like to declare that I "haven't" changed my nickname, and I "won't" be changing it . . . ever lol.

You don't need to change it, because you already have about 6 versions. That way, you can always choose one that fits with your mood. [:P]

The snow textures here have a few seams. Everytime I made that jump my eyes would be drawn to that spot . . . and it just bugged me lol.

Actually, the seams are all over the track. I'll make better 'corner' textures to fix it, although it will be a hell of a job. [uhoh]

The picnic tables are made of heavy metal, haha.

But I'll order ones that have been made of wood for the people who like to cut the corner.

Lastly, the groundbox here stops you dead when you land.

I never noticed that. Maybe that's because I didn't know the ideal track settings yet. I'll check that out and see what I can do.

Now about CP12. Moving it would be the solution, but I'm not sure what will make drivers use the normal route. I suppose I could move it like this: screencap. That way, you have to take the corner to be able to drive through it, and rifts between Phin and Cope will be history forever. [nyuk]

SLO_COPE · Post by **SLO_COPE** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:02 pm

Well, you don't "have" to fix those textures ya know . . . and yep, I noticed seams in other areas, but that particular spot kind of grabs your attention more than other areas because of the location. Least of all it does to me.

I'm not sure if there's much you can do about the ground box thing. The speed at which you go up that hill will effect how far you jump and where you land, which in turn determines whether or not you actually stick. You don't have that problem landing on models, as you know, but in this case I don't think you have the option of substituting a model in there. I wouldn't worry about it--not worth the hassle, but if you can, avoid using groundboxes in areas that serve as landing platforms.

As for cp 12 . . . yep, that would do the trick.

P.S. "COPEY" - COPE-A-SETIC" - "KOPENSTEIN" . . . regardless of which one I use, no one has to ask "Hey Cope, is that you?" So there!!! lol

Whynni · Post by **Whynni** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:56 pm

P.S. "COPEY" - COPE-A-SETIC" - "KOPENSTEIN" . . . regardless of which one I use, no one has to ask "Hey Cope, is that you?" So there!!! lol

OMG, I don't think I have to ask who invented "KOPENSTEIN"!! [:-)]

LOLOLOLOLOL!!! [:-)]

Do you actually know how that has been derived?

I edited several things, but I'm not sure which textures need to have other settings than "default." I would have to redo all those textures, which is loads of work. I changed some of the settings for parts that were easy to change, as well as the grey road textures I used for the bridge with the "Oops" rails.

I hope the jumps are better now, but I'm not sure. Just let me know. I didn't change the ground box thingies. Here's the updated track: Download Me.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:35 pm

Whynni wrote:
P.S. "COPEY" - COPE-A-SETIC" - "KOPENSTEIN" . . . regardless of which one I use, no one has to ask "Hey Cope, is that you?" So there!!! lol

OMG, I don't think I have to ask who invented "KOPENSTEIN"!! LOLOLOLOLOL!!! Do you actually know how that has been derived?

I edited several things, but I'm not sure which textures need to have other settings than "default." I would have to redo all those textures, which is loads of work. I changed some of the settings for parts that were easy to change, as well as the grey road textures I used for the bridge with the "Oops" rails.

I hope the jumps are better now, but I'm not sure. Just let me know. I didn't change the ground box thingies. Here's the updated track: Download Me.

I asume you are using traxx, to change the texture type, you simply need to open the textures window and change them, you do not have to repait the textures.

Whynni · Post by **Whynni** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:22 pm

Thanks! I didn't know that! That saves me a lot of work.

SLO_COPE · Post by **SLO_COPE** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:41 pm

Yep, the jumps look good, Whynni, however, I thought the second one, although treacherous, was ok. To keep from flipping you simply had to land more to the right, as I did in the replay. But the adjustment you make is probably for the best.

Here's what I did notice . . . so are, anyway: a sunken tree and this structure here is not quite flush with the ground. I'll look more tonight. Oh and you'll have to pardon the crappy screenshots. See, my 19" CRT bit the dust, so I got a 21" flat panel wide, which has a default resolution of 1680X1050 lol. It's great for EVERYTHING except MTM 2, but I can live with that.

Anway, I'll let ya know if I find anything else!

Whynni · Post by **Whynni** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:58 am

Thanks for the screenshots. They look fine. That is, they are useful for me to make adjustments. As long as I can find the spots you indicate, they are good enough.

Btw, I've been working on a new track, which will contain even more models made by me (e.g. the two huge bridges).

Whynni · Post by **Whynni** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:58 am

Sorry for the double post, but I doubt other will notice this otherwise. Here's an updated version of Whynni's Ride: [download me].

I'm still thinking about a correct music tune for this track. I've tried to improve all the things that needed improvement, but I might have forgotten some things Please let me know of something could use some change before the final release.