Browsers and mail programs

Post by **Phineus** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:51 am

After running a few tests on the other comp, I went looking for a thumbnail gallery generating program. Big mistake. IE let in all sorts of spyware and a couple viruses. I've cleaned them all up but I'm still getting an annoying pop up every twenty minutes or so. Anyway, before I wipe everything out with a format, I thought I'd look at and compare a couple browsers and mail programs. I've completely given up on opera, so that pretty much left me with NS 7.2 (I'm still using 7.1), the new NS 8 beta (which is just horrid) and firefox. Here's a couple screens.

<ul><li><a href="http://mtm2.com/~forum/images/browserCompare_Netscape72.gif">Netscape 7.2</a></li>
<li><a href="http://mtm2.com/~forum/images/browserCompare_Netscape8beta.gif">Netscape 8 beta</a></li>
<li><a href="http://mtm2.com/~forum/images/browserCompare_Mozilla_firefox.gif">Mozilla Firefox</a></li></ul>

Then I tried the same thing with mail. NS 8 beta doesn't have a mail program yet, so I scrounged up Eudora. The NS 'messenger' 7.2 is pretty much the same as 7.1 except they've restored a couple of the better features that were lost from v6... and one undesirable item they could have done without. Mozilla is a vanilla. Not much to complain about. And Eudora has ads in the free version.

<ul><li><a href="http://mtm2.com/~forum/images/browserCompare_Netscape72mail.gif">Netscape 7.2 mail</a></li>
<li><a href="http://mtm2.com/~forum/images/browserCompare_Mozilla_thunderbird.gif">Mozilla Thunderbird</a></li>
<li><a href="http://mtm2.com/~forum/images/browserCompare_EudoraMail.gif">Eudora</a></li></ul>

For browsers, no question that firefox has the most appeal since it's the most basic, but if 7.2 will install a more traditional theme, which it probably can, then that would be okay too. I don't mind the thought of trying thunderbird but I have mail from ages back and I'm terrified that switching from program to program will corrupt the files sooner or later, so I'm less confident on that move. I think the deciding factor will be when I'm forced toward NS 8. No way I want to use that piece of garbage.

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:25 am

I have been using Firefox for a few months now and have been very happy with it. There are a ton of extensions and themes you can download for it. Every now and then I run into a page that needs IE to display right (Windows update is one that most people know about), but they are few and far between. I downloaded an extension to help with this, it lets me right click on a link and choose "open in IE".

For Mail I just use Outlook Express. I get by mainly because my ISP prefilters my mail for viruses and spam. I just have to check the bulk mail inbox online once a week or so to make sure that no "real" mail got caught in it.

Post by **Phineus** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:23 pm

Firefox is "exactly" like netscape has been for years, only now they seem to be growing apart. Thunderbird is exactly like ns messenger too.

Q. What in the world is an extension? I saw that and had no idea. It's in NS beta 8 too.

ch_2005 · Post by **ch_2005** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:30 pm

I use and reccomend opera.

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:12 pm

Phineus wrote:Firefox is "exactly" like netscape has been for years, only now they seem to be growing apart. Thunderbird is exactly like ns messenger too.

Q. What in the world is an extension? I saw that and had no idea. It's in NS beta 8 too.

https://addons.update.mozilla.org/exten ... on=firefox

Firefox Extensions

Extensions are small add-ons that add new functionality to Firefox. They can add anything from a toolbar button to a completely new feature. They allow the browser to be customized to fit the personal needs of each user if they need additional features, while keeping Firefox small to download .

SLO_SCATTER · Post by **SLO_SCATTER** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:42 pm

I've been using Firefox as my primary browser since April 5, 2004. I really like it. The only time I use IE is for windows update, the Zone, and some occasions when Firefox doesn't open a page correctly. Then I use the extension Woody spoke of called IE View.

Extensions are just addons or plug-ins to give the browser more functionality.

I use Outlook Express for my primary email, and I also use a Yahoo account for when I need to register in websites/forums and for online purchases.

Post by **Phineus** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:23 pm

> Extensions are just addons or plug-ins to give the browser more functionality.

I was gonna say... I thought they were always called plugins.

Thanks guys. And yes, I think everybody has a dummy web mail account someplace.

Kdawg · Post by **Kdawg** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:44 pm

I just wanted to point out that PC World magazine has an article in its february 2005 issue that compares 8 web browsers: firefox, Opera, Mozilla, IE, netscape, and 3 others I've never heard of.

In my experiences:

My dad kept having problems with spyware/viruses on his computer because that was the family one running IE originally. I installed firefox on it and theres been no problems since then.

ZOtm_BigDOGGe · Post by **ZOtm_BigDOGGe** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:28 pm

I have used firefox a few times (I like it), but I still managed to get one piece of spyware.

I can see how it can help prevent virus from getting on your system, since those usually use vunerabilities in IE to get on board (unless you got one via opening an email attachment or a download), but I don't think spyware gets on your system that way. Seems to me that you can get spyware simply from visiting a website, regardless of what browser you use. isn't this so?

Post by **Phineus** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:39 pm

Spyware gets on your system many ways. And yes, just visiting a site can be enough. In fact, that's what prompted me to begin looking at this stuff. Windows security preferences are a joke. As often as not, locking out spyware prevents you from browsing and downloading. And IE is as vulnerable as outlook.

Alpine hooked up another browser that tries to make IE look and behave like netscape/mozilla, but I haven't tried it yet.

http://maxthon.com/

I have to agree with kdawg, tho. Mozilla based browsers are generally less trouble.

[ edit ]

Here's the article kdawg talks about.... I think.

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/ ... g,1,00.asp

Kdawg · Post by **Kdawg** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:36 pm

Yea thats the article in the magazine. I didn't know they posed them online as well.

Drive2Survive · Post by **Drive2Survive** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:42 am

I've a subscription to PC User magazine, and they've had some interesting articles on web browsers too (mostly urging users - repeatedly and in no uncertain terms - to ditch IE and install a more secure browser, LOL). One presented a timeline going from Mosaic 1.0 in 1993, to the market shares in 1996 of Netscape 83% / IE 8%, to 2001 market shares Netscape 9.8% / IE 89.9% and the launch of IE6, to the end of 2004 where IE6's security 'vulnerability' count has reached 153 (yikes!).

(I finally gave in to good advice and installed Firefox and Thunderbird at the start of '05 - and man, I shoulda done this months earlier.)

I don't know if this is old news to any of you - or even if anyone cares - but Microsoft are finally working on releasing a new version of IE to replace the relic that is v6.

Information security concerns have prompted Microsoft to release a new version of Internet Explorer before the next version of Windows ships. Contrary to previous plans, Microsoft will release IE7 as a beta in "early summer" 2005.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/15/gates_rsa_2005/

In my experience... I used to be happy to use the incumbent IE6, but since installing SP2 I've had some weird (thankfully infrequent) crashing bug in Windows, which seems to be randomly triggered by Explorer / IE, but only when I'm connected to the internet... so if I didn't need to replace IE before, I really did now...!

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:12 am

ZOtm_BigDOGGe wrote: Seems to me that you can get spyware simply from visiting a website, regardless of what browser you use. isn't this so?

Well yes and no, the difference it that IE is tied so closely with the OS that any Spyware you pick can have access to your whole system. With Firefox and some of the other browsers they are seperate from the OS, just like any other program. It is much harder for spyware picked up with those browsers to compromise your whole system.

Post by **Phineus** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:03 pm

Why I used Netscape for so long.

<center><img src="http://cownap.com/~mtmg/docs/extras/netscapeReceipt3.gif" width="300"></center>

Why I kept using it should be easy to understand. Its initials are i.e.

ZOtm_BigDOGGe · Post by **ZOtm_BigDOGGe** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:41 pm

1997....I think your warranty has expired...

Pretty interesting to look back to the days when one had to BUY their browser (and dial-up access from AOL cost somewhere around $60 per month). As much as I hate saying it, I guess we can thank Microsoft for the free browsers we have today.

There! Now that I've said it, I'm going to go wash my mouth out with soap.

Drive2Survive · Post by **Drive2Survive** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:08 pm

> I guess we can thank Microsoft

Microsoft have done us a big favour. They've also done us a big disservice. It depends on your point of view. See, before MS, noone had ever considered releasing software that wasn't, to the very best of their knowledge, totally bug-free. Windows, however, had millions of lines of code, which would literally have taken forever to debug conclusively and driven the selling price through the roof.

So MS made a decision: we'll not try to fix every bug before release, but release the software at a lower price and fix those bugs as they come up after the fact. This shifted the standards throughout the industry and ultimately led to lower prices, but buggier software.

ZOtm_BigDOGGe · Post by **ZOtm_BigDOGGe** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:38 am

I just ran across a very informative article at PC magazine about the security level of Firefox. While the Mozilla browser is still currently the better choice over IE, it may not be quite sound and secure as may people have been believing.

Here's a few excerpts:

Is Firefox a more secure web browser than Microsoft's Internet Explorer? The answer may be yes, but the issues are more complicated than most people realize. In fact, Firefox has its share of security problems, and has probably been saved from real-world attack so far only by its single-digit market share.

This will change. According to the mozilla site, 25 million copies of Firefox have been downloaded in the last 100 days already. It now has 5% of the browser market, and it is predicted that it's market share will increase signicantly beyond that. Here's more:

it's only recently that the Mozilla Organization began issuing security advisories of the sort that Microsoft issues every month (see www.mozilla.org/security/announce). For the most part Mozilla wasn't hiding these bugs prior to publishing advisories, but it wasn't publicizing them either.

you can get a better picture of security (and other) bugs in Firefox and other Mozilla projects at bugzilla.mozilla.org, the official bug database for Mozilla development. But even here the organization isn't totally open about security bugs; when new ones are reported, the entries in Bugzilla are generally made private for a time while they are investigated and fixed.

And unlike Microsoft, when Mozilla fixes a bug it doesn't release a patch for users. If you want to stick to release-level programs, your only option is to wait for the next general release; the upgrade to version 1.0.1 from 1.0 took about 3.5 months

So in other words, You don't see consistant security problem patches for Firefox as you do for IE because Mozilla doesn't issue patches. Any bugs and flaws in it's security remain until a new version is released, thus making it appear that FF has less problems.

Keeping flaws out of the public eye may be a good idea, as it may slow down the spreading of such info to hackers, but at the same time 3 1/2 months is a long time to leave a security flaw unpatched. More text...

And there are security problems in version 1.0.1 already, even if there are no advisories for them yet. For instance, on a multiuser machine, such as a Linux system, if one user running as root starts Firefox, and another non-root user starts Firefox, that non-root user's instance of Firefox gains root privileges

Finally, anti-spyware companies Webroot and Sunbelt Software have said that they expect Firefox-specific spyware to start showing up this year, and if the browser's market share continues to increase it's easy to see why it would. So don't forget to update, and don't rest on your Firefox laurels. You're not free of security problems, you just have different ones.

I will still have to use IE for many situations. For instance, Firefox gives me problems when I am viewing my Yahoo email and try to reply to a letter, stating that the reply page could not be opened due to some error.

I WILL still use firefox for now when surfing unknown websites I have not been to before, since it is still new enough that there should not be that many people exploiting any flaws within it.....yet.

I'm not trying to condemn Mozilla's product, so no need to defend it to me. I just thought everyone should be informed of this information (except for those who were already aware of this, of course). Consider it a public service announcement to those who were not in-the-know yet

The full article can be read via the following link:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1775806,00.asp

.

SLO_SCATTER · Post by **SLO_SCATTER** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:53 am

Thanks for the info BD.

As for the Yahoo mail problem, I use FF to get my Yahoo mail with no problems. But that's just me. I'm not saying anything against you BD. Heck, I've been to the Mozilla forums and read about ppl having problems I've never experienced. I don't know what's up with that.

ZOtm_BigDOGGe · Post by **ZOtm_BigDOGGe** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:17 pm

Retrieving email with FF has not been a problem. it's only when I tried to reply to Vales Contact forms that I got the error, but as you say, different systems have encounter different errors/problems.

Kdawg · Post by **Kdawg** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:35 pm

Can someone explain how to use Thunderbird? I've never understood how to get mail programs working with email. What do you put for the servers and those options? I use yahoo.

I'm liking the idea of clicking a desktop icon instead of typing out the address and username all the time.

thanks.